François Hollande: ‘Putin cannot be seduced’. He respects the force’

François Hollande has a ring on his finger, and he’s proud to show it off. Recently married for the first time, the former French president, whose colorful love life was one of many distractions in a spectacularly unpopular presidency, feels free. Six years have passed since his fateful decision not to seek re-election in the 2017 presidential election. His successor, Emmanuel Macron, has had his fair share of woes, putting Hollande’s dismal record in a slightly better light. “I’m no longer in retrospective analysis of my record. “There’s a kind of new freedom,” he tells me when we sit down for lunch in a Parisian bistro. “I’m happy, I’m married. And I have a family and grandchildren.”

The only president in the history of the Fifth Republic to decide not to seek a second term, Hollande could retreat into obscurity. With popularity ratings that reached the low single digits, and a portly, slightly goofy image that never quite fit the public imagination, with the grandeur of the Elysee Palace, he battered his Socialist Party, a state From which he never recovered.

But, after three political books and two children’s books, the 68-year-old is ready to enter politics once again. He claims to be a mere commentator on events, yet is less than loud when I ask if he still harbors political ambitions. He certainly regrets the decision not to seek a second term in office. “I am sorry that I said that at the time; I didn’t have all the elements needed to make the right decision.”

France is in a “dangerous” crisis, they say, with recent demonstrations and Macron’s decision to push through pension reform, which raises the state pension age from 62 to 64. With the traditional left captured by radicals and the traditional right crushed, the danger is that social unrest benefits only Marine Le Pen’s far-right party. Even if he doesn’t fully approve of it, Hollande should look with satisfaction at the sufferings of Macron, who he brought into government only to be declared an independent for the presidency. Did Macron betray them? “At least he didn’t tell the truth about his intentions, you can put it that way.”

Power is not authoritarianism. It is founded on wisdom, on persistence but through conviction and respect

Hollande certainly hasn’t shied away from criticizing his successor, who he described as lacking any political conviction. “Earlier his compass was that the country was suffering from rigidity, obstruction, left, right. He said, I will release the energies and I will break (things). what has he broken? He broke a political system.

The world is also more turbulent than in the days of Hollande’s presidency: Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine has changed the post-war international order, and the Sino-Russian axis is tightening. Hollande has always been outspoken about Vladimir Putin, setting himself apart from a French political tradition that has often been more complacent about Russia. After Putin sent his “little green men” to destabilize eastern Ukraine in 2014, Hollande canceled a controversial Russian order for two French-built Mistral helicopter carriers, delighting its Western allies. However, he also helped push Ukraine into the Minsk II peace process which failed to recognize the nature of the Russian aggression. “Putin cannot be coaxed,” he tells me. “He respects the force.”

Holland has chosen parcel, a tiny 1936 bistro in the Marais district, perfect for our lunch. The restaurant has a feel of retro elegance, its highlights being the original copper and wood counters and the dusty bottles of sparkling wine that line the shelves. Jazz music is turned down to ease our conversation and the owners are excited to receive the former president a second time.

The menu at Parcelles is as earthy and traditional as the decor. For starters, Hollande orders a terrine and jokes that he wants FT readers to know that the French have lost their taste for pork and foie gras. I choose a less adventurous option, a tartare de magre, We both choose the special main dish of the day: turbot with hazelnut sauce. Parcelles is known more for its wine than its food, so I choose a Chardonnay from Bourgogne and a glass of Mondeuse from Hollande from Savoie.

Before going to Parcel, I had talked to many people about Holland and about them two words were used over and over again: “Sympathy“(friendly) and”drool(entertaining), the adjective that seemed to me to describe a pleasant lunch companion but a character who might not be electrifying enough for Elysee. Hollande was, in fact, an accidental leader, a longtime party secretary whose partner, Ségolène Royal, the mother of his four children, was seen as a more capable politician. After their separation, Royal ran for the presidency in the 2007 election to become the Socialist candidate, but was defeated by the centre-right Nicolas Sarkozy.

Five years later, the French had grown tired of Sarkozy’s “bling bling” presidency, while the candidacy of the socialist favourite, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the former managing director of the IMF, fell through following allegations of sexual harassment. Hollande came, promising to be a “normal” president who would restore respect for the office.

(Macron) said, I will release energies and I will break (things). what has he broken? they broke a political system

He soon learned that the role was anything but ordinary in a nation that wanted the president to be Jupiter and closer to the people. I begin to ask why France expects the president to be a king, and Holland continues my sentence, “only to cut off their heads”. The French public, she explains, wanted a difficult balance: “Someone who is a symbol of authority, and on whom they can then rely. But power is not authoritarianism. It is based on knowledge, on firmness but also on conviction and respect.” installed through.

Holland didn’t quite fit the bill. His presidency was beset by stubborn unemployment, and he was seen as hesitant and indecisive. he was also prone wrong step, as their 2014 top secret no one escapes Elysee. He was captured in a full-face helmet on the back of a motor scooter on his way to meet his mistress, actress Julie Gayet, who is now his wife. He was living at the time with a journalist from Paris Match, for whom he had left Royal. “I campaigned on a scooter in 2012. It was tremendous,” he says matter-of-factly, when I bring up the episode.

The death blow to his political career was the publication of a book with which he had closely collaborated, allowing two investigative journalists from Le Monde to interview him regularly during his presidency. “Un president ne devat pas dare ka. , , (“A President Shouldn’t Say That”) was a stunner, filled with quotes from Juicy Holland that angered many in his own party.

Looking back, Holland tells me he doesn’t regret the book, just the title, which are words he said in passing and was shocked to find on the cover. “It was historic; No one had done this before and it needed to explain what we do inside (ELC). But it was used as a weapon against me. Even the people who bought it didn’t read it. It was about the title.

turbot cuts off the bone and melts in the mouth, and the conversation turns to foreign policy, where Hollande shows greater resolve and an appetite for foreign intervention. in his 2022 book Bouleversements (“Upheaval”), he describes his first encounters with Putin, when he was struck by a combination of cold determination, hostility toward the US, and fury over the expanding NATO alliance. Hollande rated him then, and still does, as a rational actor who has mastered the elaborate art of lying.

How will the war in Ukraine end, I ask him. He says that it will depend on the results of the 2024 US presidential election. “If Trump is elected, he will say, We stop here; The Russians can keep whatever they have. The cost of war is very high. What has changed since Hollande’s term, he says, is that the shape of the new geopolitical order has become clear, with the Russia-China axis strengthening and challenging the West.

I ask whether France is in danger of repeating the mistake with Russia, where it has allowed economic interests to dominate politics for too long. What did they make of the furor over Macron’s April trip to China and his remarks that Europe should not be a “follower” of the US and risk being drawn into a conflict over Taiwan?

Whenever the subject of Macron comes up, Hollande lowers his gaze and smiles, as if carefully weighing his words. “If you go to China with only economic interests in mind, and forget French political interests, you are less listened to, and vulnerable,” he says. He then praised European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who accompanied Macron after giving a strong speech on China. In Hollande’s words, she is a leader who “set the principles that were right”.

Like Macron, Hollande is a true believer in the concept of European strategic autonomy and the need to develop a common European defence. They argue that this autonomy should always be linked to the NATO alliance. He says Europe may need to prepare for the day when it will have to rely on itself for its security, but that should not mean it does not share the same objectives as the US. “If we suggest to European allies that we do not have the same interests as America, at least for peace . . . our allies may not follow us.

best part of the meal, and the intriguing part of the conversation comes with dessert. Hollande clearly has a penchant for sweets, but he claims he’s making me happy by ordering his chocolate tart. “I’m not letting madam eat on her own.”

We are on the subject of France after Macron. I tell Hollande that I am amazed by the number of people who find a Le Pen presidency in 2027 fatal. This is a lazy analysis, says Holland. Marine Le Pen could indeed win, having reached the second round of voting in presidential elections twice in the past decade, but the fate of France depends on whether the traditional right-wing and left-wing can regroup in ruling parties. are or not Macron won re-election, but he hasn’t built a real political party that will necessarily keep him alive.

If I am wise I can be more determined. It means that I don’t do things on impulse, I do them with logic and conviction.

Hollande believes that Macronism is short-lived. “(Macron) did not want to create a party or a theory. , , No one knows the name of the party chief. I am not trying to offend him by saying this, but no one knows the direction of this party. The challenge for the Left is not to reduce existing radicalism but to rebuild it with new voters and new leadership. Hollande says, “François Mitterrand (the late French president) used to say, ‘It is with citizens that you make military men’ and yes, it is with those who do not vote for you that you have to form a majority. ” “If you stay in your usual camp and it’s narrower now and it’s more radical, well, you’re going to get nothing.”

Two hours have passed, and we have eaten dessert. Before we leave, I ask him what kind of presidency do the French yearn for? Charles de Gaulle, sure, but it’s linked to his role in history, he says, and Mitterrand, who had a certain authority wrapped in mystery. Then a curious name we briefly discussed earlier comes back up: Joe Biden. “It is true that he is not as charismatic a character as (Barack) Obama, but does he embody a figure of authority based on wisdom and determination?”

As if speaking not to me but to himself, Holland says: “If I’m wise I can be more determined. That means I don’t do things on impulse, I do them with logic and conviction.” .

Roula Khalaf is editor of the Financial Times

Be the first to hear about our latest stories — Follow @ftweekend on Twitter